I ended up discovering that Stan was most worried about frequent moves and long deployments stressing his family during an Active Duty flying career. They just can't have over 8 years TIS without a waiver. They think this is going to solve the shortage. Army and Air Force use this pay. Initial assignments should be in table of organiza-tion and equipment (TOE) rather than table of distribution and allowances (TDA) units. Raising the service commitment ignores the actual root causes. Age should be liftedI'm in my mid fifties and still fly helicopters (civilian market) for a living. In recent discussions with some USAFA cadets, Ive encountered several who actually turned down pilot slots because of that 10-year ADSC. Exit surveys are important, but those only capture the opinion of those whom the Army has already lost. Anything and everything related to or affecting US Army Aviation. If you quit during flight school you are still obligated to fulfill the ADSO and reassigned to the needs of the Army. I'm not ignoring anything that has been posted within this thread -- again, it's all been awesome -- but I want to feel as sure as possible that the opinions expressed here are an accurate assessment of the average Army Aviation experience. It doesn't matter that the WOFT contract I signed this week states that it is a 6 year ADSO - the Army can do and change what it wants. The Army likes to have a balance between the two but they can change that over night. change without notice to me. I assume if you're not in flight school by that date, your commitment is just as long as the Air Force if not a little bit longer. At least in the early 2000s, there was the ARFORGEN cycle. Currently in common core here and we still don't know if it applies or not. New ADSO order goes into effect 03JUN saying: "Hey, buddy, you wanna fly? New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. The army has never been good at personnel management. This is not going to end well until leaders finally understand that there has to be a work/life balance. Anyway, I just clocked 20 years, 5 1/2 years of that has been spent in the Middle East and for what? This may be because the Army has not undertaken the same in-depth approach to understanding this problem as other services. I crushed the SIFT, passed my flight physical, have a great OML standing, etc., so I should have a good chance of getting my top pick. My talk with Stan covered all of these, so my next question was, How long were you planning on being involved in military aviation then? Army directive, AD 2021-31, approved Sept. 10, 2021, and effective Oct. 1, 2021, will reset the time required for aviator warrant officers (military occupational specialty 152 through 155) to. Full disclosure, I was a street to seat Warrant that served for 24 years. Subject to the needs of the Army, newly rated aviators should be used in operational flying duty positions immedi-ately after their successful completion of Army aviation flight training. If people don't want to serve, you are actually harming readiness, not helping it. So now the prior Enlisted must do at least 11.5 years and advance to the grade of W3. There are also a lot of great flying opportunities that you can only do on Active Duty. Im not young, but Ive aged well and am not ready to resign myself to a desk. That evens the odds even more. The Army has more career Enlisted soldiers willing to cross over for the opportunity in being an Officer, pilot and increasein pay for their families, with or without a degree. The pilot shortage is not in applicants it is in mid career. The Army can increase this to 100% with no problem whatsoever if needed. Im in shape, arguably intelligent, and have at least ten good years of service left in me yet an age waiver will not be considered for aviation for either OCS or WOCS. Cookie Notice Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Today were going to compare the more common Active Duty career path with the Ultimate one that Ive recommended so heavily. It wasn't approved. A 10 year ADSO on a guy that already is a senior E6/E7 probably didn't make a lot of sense at the time as well. I was under the impression that the bonus went away when they upped the 10+ year flight pay. They require more time for people to gain experience. At the same time it could drive a shortage of Aviation Officers, but if they're going to leave the Army anyway. This mindset is far from universal, but its prevalent enough that the Academy actually had pilot slots go unfilled a few years ago! Gen. Michael McCurry, the director of Army aviation for the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff G-3/5/7,who said in September, One question I often get asked is, are the airlines impacting your shortfall? Another anecdote, when I was deployed there was a desire to have experienced cockpits on higher risk/higher visibility missions usually two pilots with 1000+ total hours. This means that a BCT that goes to a CTC once a year always demands CAB support. Looks like 11-11.5 year total commitment. Furthermore, for cadets who may want to pursue a civilian career after a stint in the Army, the opportunity costs are higher the longer they stay. Glad I retired when I did. However, on the surface, we see that Stans plan is likely to get a pilot to the airlines a couple of years before his peers. This can exceed a 6 year obligation. Paste as plain text instead, It is for anyone graduating flight school and should be based on your graduation date. Yes, the Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path is the best it gets you to all of your goals the fastest. Hed still have to go through steps 2-5 from the Active Duty pilot career path above! By Thomas Brading, Army News ServiceAugust 18, 2020. I dont know if there are enough of us to completely change policy, but you need pilots and Im willing to fly for whatever period is demanded of me Im not the only one. Flying helicopters looks pretty dope though. Signal: The IT department of the Army. But then again, it's 4 more years of employment or should I say deployments. Although its easy to feel stuck on Active Duty, there are also options for getting out early. It was not a wild decision to take a small hit to accession to make sure you have mid careerists. That's my issue (age waiver). "We probably need to look at it and adjust it a . There's the technical expertise that goes along with it as well. That is completely and totally gone. This is the second part of a series about choosing between military and civilian career options. One Academy cadet I spoke with (lets call him Stan) has always wanted to be a military pilot. No additional time added with a BRADSO. Weve seen, If youre headed to pilot training, you absolutely must read our 3-part series on Winning UPT. As a Guard or, There are also a lot of great flying opportunities that you can only do on Active Duty. b. If I am a scholarship Cadet, I understand that upon completion of my initial 4 year ROTC ADSO, I . The Graduate School Option (GRADSO) portion of the CSP program continues to be suspended since YG2014 pending officer corps reshaping efforts. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. I think that mindser still exists. Even if the increase in commitment lowers the civilian WOFT applicantnumbers, the in house career Enlisted pool will fill the void. After AFIT, Stan would owe a payback for school and might have to serve longer than his 5-year non-pilot ADSC. Like many personnel issues though, the age limit is probably ripe for a re-look given that people now live healthier, more active, and longer lives. How do Warrant Officers get promoted? (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in 47.) But Im a guard guy so RTAG is at the end of hooker advanced airframe for me theyll be hiring, all my airline buddies said everything is ramping back up. From this mid-grade officer's perspective this constant obsession with readiness is actually detrimental to readiness. Moving to a random Air Force Base for less than 1 year while Awaiting Pilot Training (APT), Moving to a base for 6-10 months for initial aircraft qualification. A RAND Corporation studyfound that even $35,000 a year would not be sufficient to stem the flow of Air Force pilotsthe study concluded a bonus cap between $38,500 and $62,500 would be necessary to make a meaningful impact. Upload or insert images from URL. However, Army aviation should not be compared with the other military branchesnot least because of the widely varying costs of producing pilots. While a longer ADSO may help from looking solely at the numbers, it won't be effective at retaining quality talent. The same goes for great deals like going to Test Pilot School, flying the E-11A BACN, and much more. For more information, please see our If you accept tuition assistance, 2 year ADSO. Lasting solutions must come in the form of quality of life and quality of service improvements. Extra 4 years would NOT make a difference. I assume if you're not finished withflight school by 30 Sep 20, your commitment is just as long as the Air Force if not a little bit longer. I remember when they tried to get aviators out of the "sack" flight suit and into Nomex BDUs to make them more soldierly. Since classes are generally pretty well mixed with people with respect to when they commissioned, the first couple of classes must have been a mix of people on the old 6 and the new 10. Ive also called this the, Stans idea (Do 5 years as an engineer, then fly for the Guard or Reserve), Looking at these side by side, its clear why #1 is the Ultimate option. 10 year ADSO is official 78 212 212 comments Best Add a Comment awestm11 3 yr. ago "Army Aviators don't want to stay in the Army even though we pay them less, deploy them more, and treat them worse than their peers in other branches and civilian careers, so we will just force them to stay in longer. This! Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Clear editor. With a 10 year ADSO and an 8 year max time in service requirementit significantly reduces the in house pool as well. Then 10 year service obligation put me right at 20 so Im not too worried about that. So 6 years from ALE graduation day? However, I dont think its worth passing up a nearly guaranteed Active Duty. The consensus seems to be that if you graduate flight school in FY 2021, you accrue the 10 year ADSO. If I am branched Aviation, this ADSO will begin upon completion of my flight school ADSO. Starting in October, all personnel selected to attend the Armys initial entry aviation training will incur an ADSO of ten years upon graduation from flight traininga dramatic increase from the previous six-year commitment. Heres some humor about the topic too https://thefrontlines.com/comics/army-pilots-beware/. His answer was, Of course not. Even just a year or two of delay erases any possible advantages of this career path. They wont, we already dont get the congressionally authorized flight pay. I like the idea of the Ultimate career path because it still allows you to. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Other branches have had 10 year ADSOs for a long time. The UH-72 costs twice as much to operate as a TH-67. All in all, this track has the potential for less family stability than his Active Duty pilot counterparts. Air defense branch offering $60,000 bonus for warrant officers, New aviators to incur 10-year service obligation, New Aviators to incur 10-year service obligation. Although neither has been officially announced, the Army is rumored to be considering two proposals: a provisional status for warrant officer candidates until they graduate flight school and an increase in time-in-grade to make chief warrant officer 2. By policy, the Army must review the AvB program quarterly to determine the program's effectiveness. Therefore, this option is virtually free for Aviation officers. Do most of your fellow aviators love it? The Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path is to get hired directly by a Guard or Reserve unit and let them send you to UPT. In my next 6 years I flew a total of 50 hoursAnd it's not for lack of trying, I was just in assignments (that I didn't ask for and tried to get out of) where there were no aviation units around. Cadets, who have not experienced the Army for even one day as an officer, are now asked to commit up to eleven years for the opportunity to fly for six yearsif they are luckywhile spending the rest of that time on staff, in professional military education, or in broadening assignments. Although its less common to get more than 6-12 months of your ADSC forgiven under this program, that still gets you off Active Duty sooner than expected. I've been in the Army for a long time, and it's never been worse than now. Once he identified some units in which hes interested in, hed need to start. Can you imagine thesmile on more than a few faces of the last graduating class in Fy 2020 in September. There is no down time, no time to build family and relationships and the team. The root cause cited by those transitioning at various levels has related to toxic climates, mismanagement of professional profiles, quality of life, and unit culture. Stan was worried about his Active Duty career path (Option #2) because it would ensure several years of moves and deployments. The Palace Chase program exists specifically for Active Duty pilots willing to make an early commitment to continue their service in the Guard or Reserve. Some of the impacts may have directly affected [Soldiers] ability to pursue [their] goals of working for the commercial sector, especially the airlines.. I see three and four star Generals with less, HOW?! After all, it is the warrant officer exodus to the airlines that has driven the Armys pilot retention focus. Must be a volunteer just like airborne. Fiscal Yr 2021 starts Oct 1, 2020. What a joke. The 10 year ADSO was based on whether or not you pinned WO1/2LT by a certain date, not by when you started or graduated IERW. The first step the Army must take is to implement exit surveys for pilots to determine why they are leaving. Hed probably get 2-3 years at that assignment, but if he did a good job the Air Force would offer him the chance to get a Masters Degree through the Air Force Institute of Technology (AFIT) at Wright Patterson AFB. If pilots today are so unhappy that they are leaving in numbers higher than expected, why would prospective pilots accept a much longer service obligation for that same experience? Yes, most of us eventually plan to move on to the airlines. Even if the increase in commitment lowers the civilian WOFT applicantnumbers, the in house career Enlisted pool will fill the void. At least 70% are not degree holders and they come from all 5 branches of the military. Why or why not? To create a mission-ready helicopter pilot, the Army invests between six hundred thousand and one million dollars during approximately one year of flight training. Theres no debating that the military has a near monopoly on the most exciting aviation available to humankind. I'm roaring and ready to go. | Army Organic Industrial Base Modernization Implementation Plan, Army Civil Works announces publication of a formal review for Nationwide Permit 12, Army Extends Timeline for Postpartum Soldiers to Meet Body Fat Standards, U.S. Army updates promotion and retention policies in response to COVID-19.
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