The earliest 3D-printed guns were crude single-shot devices. Navigation (GPS, altimetres, compasses, maps), Immediate shipping on a all products listed. I can send pictures of it. That last photo will give you an idea of the relative thickness of the stock at the wrist - typical Brit (Belgian) 4 1/8th inch in circumference! I have my grand dads Belgian Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen. Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. Coleye M. N. Bernard Alphonse Scroll through our inventory of antique pistols and handguns from our cartridge pistols and revolvers category below. Unmarked barrel with Belgian proof mark, action currently . This devotion to Americana papers over the foreign status of all three gun companies: Glock. Board Of manufacturers identifying marks, more commonly referred to as Proof Marks, Arsenal or Inspector Marks Spain depended for long upon the proof of individual armourers, and most Spanish barrels were marked with the stamp of the maker set in a square or oblong block under a crown. Subcategories This category has only the following subcategory. Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. I will have to upload some pictures later when I get to my computer. Midway USA sells a CO2 kit to unload both flint and percussion guns.Best,Gerry, hello, what does a 'z' also indicate on a Begian pinfire revolver cylinder please. Bernard Victor & Cie Behr Jean jacques Measure your Cogswell and it should be about that.The barrels are 32" and the gun weighs approx 73/4 lbs. 254.541.2985 John Hille, john@jhille.com. it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? I live in Tennessee and would love help on identifying this gun down to the year and place made. Knowledge of commonly used military ammunition assists cases. The numbers 138 G(looks like a 1) are under the proof mark. The date stamps is not used on all guns, otherwise that is the most accurate. Withdraw it and lay it along the barrel, lining up the pencil mark with the muzzle. Colleye Henri Joseph A strong good product that will last for long usage in your Stevans): cant verify it is Maj. Doan, but on his hip is a pistol, which looks alike a 7 in. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The family was in the barrel making business from the 1880's until mid the 1960's. http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm This is Jean-Baptiste Delcour-Dupont and his son Oscar, 1924. "Cueruy" could be the maker. Spesco was based in Atlanta, GA, and imported a variety of reproduction and modern guns in the 1960's and 70's.It would be a good idea to check that the rifle is unloaded. Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles Seekins Precision Glen Seekins Seekins Precision United States Civilian S&T Motiv S&T Holdings Co Ltd South Korea Military S&W Horace Smith and Daniel B. Wesson Smith & Wesson: United States Various: Savage Arthur Savage Savage Arms: United States SCCY SCCY Firearms: United States Seraphim Armoury . Can anybody shed some light here? Hand Guns 24 Rifles-Shotguns 22 . location, rather than a manufacturer. There are a number of This will be an on going Belgian shotguns are still finely-made firearms and are considered some of the best to come out of Europe. Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks, Manufacturers so that means it is for sure a 12 gauge? Any idea what it all means? Thank you Jerry. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Carl Russell & Co Gunmakers Ltd, Stable Yard, Hatfield Park, Hatfield, Hertfordshire AL9 5NQ. Serial Numbers. Prices: side-by-side, from 53,000 + VAT; over-and-under, from 65,000 + VAT. U.S.A.Most pistols exported from the United States are not proof marked in their country of origin. My best guess is that it's a maker's mark, but of course I could be wrong. Underneath the whole appears the word St. Etienne. Bettonville - Fontaine Pistol made in Belgium, as you know. IMPORTANT NOTE! Muzzleloading, breech loading, accessories, Airborne weapon pod systems, ammunition, vehicle mounted weapon systems, Gas-piston-operated weapon systems, firearm accessories, drop-in triggers, patriotic artwork, bolt carriers, bolts, upper receivers, barrel nut heatsinks, E^2 (E-Squared) barrels, Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles, Suppressors, optics, ammunition, clothing, Springfield, Massachusetts armory location, (Special Warfare Operations Research and Development), This page was last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10. Can be without star and ring. I have a Belgium 38-40 with a 7 in barrel all matching. Thomas Jefferson. We have just started to assemble this on going source of Proof The Great Exhibition of 1851 in London did much to publicize Lefaucheuxs system. He received his technical training in Soest and then in Warstein. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. Email: Info@hlebooks.com The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons. JavaScript is disabled. Bodson TH. Credit: @matt_s_schmidt Unfortunately, given that double barrel shotguns were made in numerous countries and then exported to the USA, chances are that not all of them will state the manufacturer and serial number in the same way. The crude VIII on each barrel aren't proof marks but a means to ensure matching tubes for this set of barrels. I also looked at other European proof marks but didn't find the one you mention: compare http://www.cornellpubs.com/Catalog/proof-marks-intl.pdf. There's no indication of choke--but that didn't begin in Belgium until 1898. One of the lesser known of the Belgian handgun makers was Jean Warnant but he was a creative designer and the British Thornton's Patent for a double action revolver lock work was actually originally his idea for which he applied for a patent in Belgium in 1874 and that patent was granted in 1875. Ithaca Gun Company: One of America's most successful gun makers. Collings Hadelin JavaScript is disabled. Inspectors mark, normally these are kept secret. presented below is the first of the series and is covering the gunmakers whose names are 1840-1860. Mark for voluntary treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, Mark for voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels. Any ideas as to date range? The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . Home | Login | Register. Drue, yes, the absence of rifling means that this pin-fire was used for shot.Pin-fires represent an important stage in the development of firearms. The viewers mark was a capital V, also surmounted with a crown. Andr M.J. It could be of relatively recent manufacture. If you are considering buying a Belgian gun, look long and hard atits quality. I'll test it very cautiously. See Kennett's # 2 and # 9 above. are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Too, seems to be an odd, long cut in the standing breech for the Greener Crossbolt. Ever seen that? Would that appear at this location on the piece?What Im attempting to do, is get this pistol appraised; thus the research to discover all the markings. It was mandatory post-1924. Guns and rifles built in Germany and the German principalities before the 1890s typically did not carry proof marks, but the 1891 proof law "grandfathered" these arms by mandating that they be submitted to the proof house and marked with a crown-over-V, the V standing for vorrat or "on hand". Thank y'all again! thank you. Consignment Sale Information. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Comblain - Dorther Hubert BELGIAN MADE, 12 GAUGE, BOXLOCK EJECTOR, 32" BARRELS, CHOKES MODIFIED & FULL, 2-3/4", BROADWAY RIB, GOLD WASHED SINGLE SELECTIVE INERTIA TRIGGER, NON-AUTOMATIC SAFETY, PISTOL GRIP, .Click for more info Seller: Country Pursuits Area Code: 718 $3,895.00 ROYAL GUN, BELGIUM SXS 12GA, GI#: 102149842 Order this book online and pay it through Hand Guns 17 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Today's biography is a guest post by our friend Robert White - thanks, Robert! Whatever type of shotgun you want to add to your collection, you can be sure to find just what you're looking for here. Entries are listed by initial year of service descending, then grouped by designation (A-to-Z) to better showcase a given country's evolution in the field of infantry arms. Now, at age 63, Jensen has reached the stage in life where he's ready to start letting go of his collection. I have two sets of wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44; 105C. The major countries which either did not have proof or whose marks were not recognized were the U.S. and Spain. Its weight Information, NRA Bultot Jean Ateliers Saint Laurent, Bauwir Joseph since 1929 Eibar admission proof for guns with old marks since 1929 Eibar proof used in . Bookmark Bernard Emile & Cie CLIMAS Tradename used by J. Stevens Arms Co. on guns. Counet - Genot These These include the Maximum service load for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof. In fact, that pattern was considered as adding to the beauty of a gun and therefore highly desireable. There are literally thousands of small individual makers, and often such . Some older foreign manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a location, rather than a manufacturer. is 1.220 kg (43.00 oz). individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some In the Proof Marks; my piece has a Star P, which in the article you do not identify. Chaineux J. Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. will it take normal 12 gauge shells then? Besides these national collections, there are many municipal and private galleries whose curators have formed most excellent catalogues, but in the main this knowledge is uncoordinated. Listing of small arms appearing from 1800 to 1899. to share our findings by this means of communication. Henri Pieper (left) and Nicolas Pieper (right) Henri Pieper was born and raised in modest German home in Soest (Westphalia) Germany on Oct 30, 1840. Pictures would help! Bodson N. I can't tell if it was proved for nitro: those have a lion over the PV. The 1136 is engraved on the bottom of the barrel. Liege, in Belgium, has always been celebrated for its weapons, and established its proof house as a municipal enterprise on May 10, 1672, when it was laid down that barrels should be marked with the stamp of the city, and unproved weapons might not be sold under pain of a fine of a gold florin and the confiscation of the unproved barrel. visiting our on-line listing of manufacturers identifying marks, Jacquemart-Pirotte Joseph Jamar & Cie Jamar Frres Jamar Jean Henri Jamar J. H. & Soleil & Smits Jamar-Smits Jean Henri Jamar Michel Jamin Marcel Jamri J. H. Jans Jansen Adolphe Janssen Fils & Cie Janssen Frres Janson Auguste Jaspar J. JBL Job T. Joiris Joiris & Geurten Joiris Jean, Vandenbergh G & Geurten J. Joiris Joseph Jolet Joseph Hello, I have two ELG 1136 Belgian Percussion Dueling pistols with a 6 inch barrel. Serial Numbers. After this, the firearm is examined to make sure it is still intact and if so, the metal (usually the barrel) is stamped with . Counet-Leboulle J. arsenal marks, you will find other marks or stampings. The fourth the crossed branches, with the letters S.E.E., and a cross in their angles. this book online and pay it through Paypal. The 'z' most likely is an inspector's mark indicating satisfactory quality for this part: in this case, a revolver cylinder--that's my best guess, anyway. BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa. Their total production was around 180,000 guns. The standard proving of weapons rose out of the need for protection on the part of the public against unreliable weapons, and it was also a means of protecting the armourer guild and good craftsmen against outside competition with cheap imported arms. 14 Designates guns with rifled chokes. 4 0 obj The crowned R was for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and 50 % excess pressure. Smaller gauges progressively cost more, with 20-gauge guns generally bringing at least twice the price of a 12 gauge. Then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859. A fine Antique Belgian Double barreled Flintlock sporting gun by Michel Berleur Liege with rainproof pans with safety-covers released by a spring-catch at the front of the steels. Testing the gun We have provided you What I know so far is: 1924 is a bit late for Damascus barrels. examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these Each new gun is presented in a best oak and leather case complete with canvas outer and a full complement of accessories. Christophe & Montigny As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. Oftentimes it makes no sense to let go of the past, particularly since shotguns from higher-quality Damascus steel are as shootable today as they were 150-plus years ago. The Modern Shotgun. I believe you'll find that the E in a diamond symbol is the mark used by the Timothy Eaton company of Toronto Canada. Is there a stamp of LLH on the tubes forward of the flats? Under their charter the Gunmakers Company had powers to prove and mark all manner of hand guns, daggs, and pistols, and every part thereof, whether made in London or in the suburbs, or within ten miles thereof, or brought thither for sale, or imported for foreign parts. As I've said, I'm not an expert. So the barrel strength would be just a bit less than "modern" barrels; but not the corrosion resistance of Winchester Nickel Steel or AISI 4140. The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Still, this company firmly has its roots in the good old U.S.A. John Moses Browning is a legend of firearms history. . listed in alphabetical order. Proof Marks or All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers Home > Companies Gun & arms makers from Belgium country Czech Republic South Africa Israel Malaysia Netherlands Belgium Norway United Arab Emirates Finland Nigeria Ukraine Hungary Indonesia Lithuania Serbia Slovak Republic Croatia New Zealand Sweden Greece Japan Slovenia cardboard cover and the paper used for the printing was of the high glossy type and Your help is appreciated. Purchased by Val Forgett of Navy Arms in 1978. Shooting Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture By Jim Harmer Updated on February 7, 2023 It's important to know where your firearms come from if you are a conscious consumer who wants to make sure your money is only going to places you support. I'm still working on a date and it seems like narrowing it down by what years it could'nt be from might be a better strategy. St. Etienne, in France, established its proof house in the reign of Francis I., at the beginning of the sixteenth century. Can't help much w/o some photos (send to ghcox3@gmail.com). The book presented below is the second of the series and is covering the gun makers whose names are in the D to F range of the alphabetical order. There is a lot of glare in the photo of the barrels' "water table" The left (right as viewed upside down, and likely the tighter choked) barrel seems to read "18.4 (bore size in mm) choke 18.2". Joseph Farrell on October 27, 2020: 1891 - present 16 Barrel weight in grams of nitro proofed shotguns. Second Variation serial numbers 707517-851751 (7,000 produced) - 708921. It's very old but I'd like to know more about it. Courard Thanks Hause. Flintlock fowling pieces and rifles were made for the Northwest Indian trade until the early twentieth century; so, too, percussion long guns for sale in Africa. stream No maker's name anywhere? The lack of chamber length probably means it was made before 1892.Is there a name on it? Proof marks are the official stamps or ciphers showing that a barrel has been properly tested with the prescribed excess charges of powder and ball that allow a large factor of safety to the user. "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over Well the bore is noted in the rhombus as >>12<< and the constriction values are >>18.2/18.2<< & >>17.3/18.2<< so with those it has to be a 12 bore. Due to the I have a Belgian muzzle loader pistol with the cylinder marked "ELG" in a circle with a star underneath it in the circle, there is also a "D" on the cylinder underneath the proof mark. weapon. Tullea three spiked crown or mitre above a capital E (as shown below). Greetings Easthampton,I have been researching an old antique pistol that has been in our family for generations.What leads me to your group was the Hits and Misses article posted in 2014; on Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks (my piece has the spelling Belgium). Thanks again for the help! will normally provide the information needed to make a caliber It passed proof for nitro which at the time would have been a service pressure of about 9,000 psi. New York: A. S. Barnes, 1961. The examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these firearms. Most specimen marks are of this nature, and it is no unusual thing to find the marks of two different smiths upon the same weapon, one man signing the lock work, the other being the barrel maker. After years of looking at and trying They are often found in combination with proof-marks, and still more frequently on unproved arms made in countries where no official proof was existent. It is a 12 gauge with 70mm = 2 3/4" chambers. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. 1890, double bbl shotgun, 12 ga, 30" bbls. country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". Please - no questions about your old guns. The Belgian-made Auto-5 gets more accolades, but the Miroku A-5 is the better gun. [more like this] Belgian Flobert Style Warnant 8mm Parlor. Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum Most shotguns have smoothbore barret to be able to use shells which are grouped by gauges (instead of rifles caliber) - they indicate the weight of the ammunition fired. Their cipher or mark was the letters G.P. The fifth a crown, with three crossed spikes set over a capital E. Other French towns had their special marks, such as These are original antique muzzleloaders that are made by individual gunsmiths or small manufacturing concerns, usually prior to the era of mass production, but sometimes well into the mid-19th century. 1 On the chamber or or lock on muzzle loading which has passed final black powder proof. Caliber 15mm, length 122cm. All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from manufacturers.name.include? A reader hasasked me to say something aboutBelgian proof marks. On barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof. No maker's name at all. The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. I will try to upload a pic if it'll let me. Comblain Please someone let me know that they know about these Belgian doubles! In contrast to Walther, Mauser did not start over with serial numbers at the . Is there a 70mm stamp on the extractor blade faces? You may know how to do this: put the ramrod down the barrel and mark it with a pencil at the muzzle. Now represents definitive black powder proof except for muzzle loaders, This mark is found on barrels and locks after voluntary semi-smokeless proof, Standard smokeless powder proof on military rifles below 8mm caliber.1898-present, Standard smokeless proof for all arms.1903-present, Mark applied to barrels which failed proof and have returned to makers for reworking. Saillevillean E. reversed set in a square stamp (as shown below). Search. I suspect the gun is a Janssen. By Alain Daubresse. He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. Also on the chamber there are three marks, one which I have not been able to identify, but appears to be provisional proof? In its small version its a acceptance mark on barrels that was exported in a unfinished state 1846-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small pistols and revolvers barrels 1866-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small revolvers cylinders 1866-1893. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. "Arsenal" or "Inspector Marks". http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home. Ad Categories: Pre-1840. The inspectors mark is still an secret so the list here should be regarded as uncertain, but it can in some cases give a more accurate dating that the stamps. Quick Facts Home | Login | Register. that we have found on this subject. Birmingham had also a proof, but this test was not obligatory, and makers evaded the tests. OldGuns Newsletter . I'm not familiar with the proof mark you describe, although a French one exists of AR with a three-pronged crown above, used for smokeless powder proof (but no M). Berleur Guillaume Some of the links in the first post are inactive and can not be edited. Bazin F.J. below are samples of Proof Marks of different countries. Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. Original handmade flintlock & percussion ("cap & ball") firearms . Photos of the flats on the barrels and on the action would help a lot. The book referred to more commonly as "Proof Marks", In 1849 the additional ciphers for provisional proof the letters E.L. in script, enlaced, and the sign of the tower of Liege a little obelisk upon a pyramidal base, also shown on the right [above]. Baron Emile LLH (and other Belgian makers) made the tubes used by most of the U.S. double gun makers 1920s-1940s, with Siemens-Martin or Krupp (by license) steel supplied by Cockerill. I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. + 10-14% by piezoelectric transducer measurement. Bovy Thodore Joseph Antique Shotguns (Pre-1899): Belgian Shotguns, Side by Side Shotguns Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. ~JP2lLn)wMO(;%vvRnS>2sw~zG!D""L0MW#+J%d)g"#Q4H&D4&KdU_};g|CN>Is>X&'vqFc&Pkr3EjZ1M&|dv55*6GI?/cOra#2K;cW>rLFtgtycw^4RiK-myVS[${XZw ho"=^f%DeiG wPnD6#diqSg].GI24?>.0 ?~wXy$6Sd3Ln2IdLL_#6)G7OE)7igF. Hand Guns 2 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . I'm very excited about this gun because I think the serial number is 106. If I was asked for a guess for a dollar I would say mid 1930's. Anyone else know? Volunteer arms co. on October 29, 2020: 16 gauge serial number is 90524xe what would it be worth and how old is it. firearms. Project Upland. Smokeless powder proof of military rifles until 1903, thereafter indicates nitro proof for all types of arms. The first cipher is the crossed branches surmounted by a crown, and with a cross or star in the three other angles. The 1KG 545 is the barrel weight in grams. Comblain Dieudonn Joseph Designates rifled barrel. Debouxthay was a gunmaker in Liege, Belgium, active at least from 1888-1904. HI, John. There are a total of [ 71 ] Belgium Infantry Arms List (Current and Former Types) entries in the Military Factory. This includes many fine Browning A5 shotguns and the Superposed shotgun. On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size. Does it reach the touch hole? Just as many muzzleloaders were converted to breechloadersthink of the Springfield trapdoor action or the British Snidermany pin-fires were converted to center-fire guns. By 1931, Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre in Herstal, Belgium (FN) launched an even smaller .25 ACP pistol developed by the company's chief designer, Dieudonn Saive. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Can you pleasure us with a pic of the side view of the tubeset top rib extension to accept the Greener crossbolt? The Baltus - Wilmotte Hand Guns 9 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . If you have a question or would like more information, please call (877) 214-9327 or email info . Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914. The circled L is a special proof mark applied to guns imported into Belgium that do not carry proof marks recognized by the Liege proof house. Double gun shotguns - Side by Side shotguns, and over under shotguns - Including drillings, double barreled rifles, SxS double rifles, combination guns. time, therefore assisting in dating the arm. R. Medina on October 31, 2020: ttn intnl model 1878 s/n 4751. michael v ventimiglia on October 30, 2020: new england firearms ( N G 001039 ) model r22 ultra mini. Since the U.S. has no proofing houses (as in England, France, Germany and . Variant of the one above, used for some month in 1894 and sometimes later on Not for ball, indicates that the barrel has choke. B. Tradename on guns made in Belgium, c.1900. Very helpfull once again. Lewis Lobdell Hepburn ran his own gunshop in Colton, a small village .Click for more info Seller: gbdeer Area Code: 315 $2,600.00 ATTRACTIVE WESLEY RICHARDS 6-GAUGE PERCUSSION SINGLE BARREL SHOTGUN GI#: 102214961 It has a gold trigger and serial number starts with an x. I'm very curious as to why there is an "FN" above the serial #. Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. this location now so you can return often. Belgian Arms cie The slot for the pin had to be welded up and a firing pin installed.I dont know when pin-fire cartridges ceased being manufactured, but Id guess they were still available until the early twentieth century. We now have 1689 serial numbers!. Very long barrel. 1860-1870. Hand Guns 3 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . it was my grandfathers and has been in the family for a while. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2. On barrels of muzzleloading guns that has passed a re-enforced black powder proof. The "D.D. The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. Gun Barrel Proof Marks. Bonzon & Arents & Cie Bouquin Ad Berleur Michel If you can, send me a photo: ghcox3@gmail.com.Best,Gerry, Gerry;I just sent you a photo of what I believe are the proof marks of a Belgium made double barrel 10 gauge shotgun. Since the evolution of the modern side-by-side and over/under hammerless shotguns in the late 19th Century, Belgian gunmakers have turned out some of the best. 1860-1870. The gun belonged to HH Nawab Ahsanullah. Hi, Jeremy. is about 30 cm X 22 cm (11.80" X 8.60"). Courard N. The size of this book of 232 pages Very little: I'm assuming it isn't a muzzleloader but a breechloader, which means it could be as early as 1860-1865, say. Hand Guns 8 Rifles-Shotguns 2 . In 1888 it was decided by a joint meeting of the Gunmakers Company and the Birmingham Guardians that a new supplementary proof for smokeless powder should be instituted in 1893, 1896, and 1904; the rules were further adjusted to allow for new powders. So the only indicator of the chamber depth is found with the stamp of the Chamber dimensions? John Browning's Auto-5 set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns. 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